SECTION 12: EMPENNAGE FAIRINGS - Revision history

Martin at 15:03, 6 July 2025

2025-07-06T15:03:52Z

← Older revision		Revision as of 15:03, 6 July 2025
Line 20:		Line 20:

	==== Page 12-3 ====		==== Page 12-3 ====
	* It is possible to 3D-print a mold and lay up a fiberglass cap that goes onto the leading edge of E-912 instead of building it up to match the curvature of E-913. The 3D-print project is here [https://cad.onshape.com/documents/2d18e62c34f9871d62d595bd/w/62ed52794e9db993635c4b5a/e/878ad7f4480a4767bfe7c195?renderMode=0&uiState=6243a8118871e6462234511d at Onshape]. The 3D-printer file is here [[~~index.php?title=~~Media:HS Fairing Mold1.stl\|HS_Fairing_Mold1.stl]].		* It is possible to 3D-print a mold and lay up a fiberglass cap that goes onto the leading edge of E-912 instead of building it up to match the curvature of E-913. The 3D-print project is here [https://cad.onshape.com/documents/2d18e62c34f9871d62d595bd/w/62ed52794e9db993635c4b5a/e/878ad7f4480a4767bfe7c195?renderMode=0&uiState=6243a8118871e6462234511d at Onshape]. The 3D-printer file is here [[Media:HS Fairing Mold1.stl\|HS_Fairing_Mold1.stl]].
	* It is possible to 3D-print a mold and lay up a fiberglass insert that goes into HS-910. It has the right curvature and it has the necessary kink to match the Elevator counter weight leading edge. The 3D-print project is here [https://cad.onshape.com/documents/fcd78f2ce5fcf8549652b724/w/efce270e7d34aa85633c27ce/e/b25eb27fde3cd5777347d51f?renderMode=0&uiState=6243a8b37aa9182ef0561832 at Onshape]. The 3D-printer file is here [[~~index.php?title=~~Media:HS Fairing Mold2.stl\|HS_Fairing_Mold2.stl]]		* It is possible to 3D-print a mold and lay up a fiberglass insert that goes into HS-910. It has the right curvature and it has the necessary kink to match the Elevator counter weight leading edge. The 3D-print project is here [https://cad.onshape.com/documents/fcd78f2ce5fcf8549652b724/w/efce270e7d34aa85633c27ce/e/b25eb27fde3cd5777347d51f?renderMode=0&uiState=6243a8b37aa9182ef0561832 at Onshape]. The 3D-printer file is here [[Media:HS Fairing Mold2.stl\|HS_Fairing_Mold2.stl]]
	==== Page 12-6 ====		==== Page 12-6 ====
	* Step 6: There is no machine countersink bit with a pilot that would fit exactly into the threaded part of a #6 screw (#36 hole), only for the #28 hole that the screw goes through. Use the countersink bit for 3/32 rivets (#40).		* Step 6: There is no machine countersink bit with a pilot that would fit exactly into the threaded part of a #6 screw (#36 hole), only for the #28 hole that the screw goes through. Use the countersink bit for 3/32 rivets (#40).

	[[~~index.php?title=~~Category:Hints]]		[[Category:Hints]]

Kirkbauer at 14:51, 6 July 2025

2025-07-06T14:51:15Z

← Older revision		Revision as of 14:51, 6 July 2025
Line 6:		Line 6:
	Special/New Tools/Supplies		Special/New Tools/Supplies

	* If this is your first time doing fiberglass work, [https://vansaircraftbuilders.com/fiberglass-101.aspx start here]		* If this is your first time doing fiberglass work, [https://vansaircraftbuilders.com/fiberglass-101.aspx start here]. It's worth figuring it all out and getting good at it now because for most builders this is the start of quite a bit of fiberglass work in your future.
			* Epoxy has a shelf life; purchasing one quart will be plenty for this stage and you may also be able to use it for the wingtips.

	Modifications to Consider		Modifications to Consider
Line 19:		Line 20:

	==== Page 12-3 ====		==== Page 12-3 ====
	* It is possible to 3D-print a mold and lay up a fiberglass cap that goes onto the leading edge of E-912 instead of building it up to match the curvature of E-913. The 3D-print project is here [https://cad.onshape.com/documents/2d18e62c34f9871d62d595bd/w/62ed52794e9db993635c4b5a/e/878ad7f4480a4767bfe7c195?renderMode=0&uiState=6243a8118871e6462234511d at Onshape]. The 3D-printer file is here [[Media:HS Fairing Mold1.stl\|HS_Fairing_Mold1.stl]].		* It is possible to 3D-print a mold and lay up a fiberglass cap that goes onto the leading edge of E-912 instead of building it up to match the curvature of E-913. The 3D-print project is here [https://cad.onshape.com/documents/2d18e62c34f9871d62d595bd/w/62ed52794e9db993635c4b5a/e/878ad7f4480a4767bfe7c195?renderMode=0&uiState=6243a8118871e6462234511d at Onshape]. The 3D-printer file is here [[index.php?title=Media:HS Fairing Mold1.stl\|HS_Fairing_Mold1.stl]].
	* It is possible to 3D-print a mold and lay up a fiberglass insert that goes into HS-910. It has the right curvature and it has the necessary kink to match the Elevator counter weight leading edge. The 3D-print project is here [https://cad.onshape.com/documents/fcd78f2ce5fcf8549652b724/w/efce270e7d34aa85633c27ce/e/b25eb27fde3cd5777347d51f?renderMode=0&uiState=6243a8b37aa9182ef0561832 at Onshape]. The 3D-printer file is here [[Media:HS Fairing Mold2.stl\|HS_Fairing_Mold2.stl]]		* It is possible to 3D-print a mold and lay up a fiberglass insert that goes into HS-910. It has the right curvature and it has the necessary kink to match the Elevator counter weight leading edge. The 3D-print project is here [https://cad.onshape.com/documents/fcd78f2ce5fcf8549652b724/w/efce270e7d34aa85633c27ce/e/b25eb27fde3cd5777347d51f?renderMode=0&uiState=6243a8b37aa9182ef0561832 at Onshape]. The 3D-printer file is here [[index.php?title=Media:HS Fairing Mold2.stl\|HS_Fairing_Mold2.stl]]
	==== Page 12-6 ====		==== Page 12-6 ====
	* Step 6: There is no machine countersink bit with a pilot that would fit exactly into the threaded part of a #6 screw (#36 hole), only for the #28 hole that the screw goes through. Use the countersink bit for 3/32 rivets (#40).		* Step 6: There is no machine countersink bit with a pilot that would fit exactly into the threaded part of a #6 screw (#36 hole), only for the #28 hole that the screw goes through. Use the countersink bit for 3/32 rivets (#40).

	[[Category:Hints]]		[[index.php?title=Category:Hints]]

Martin at 14:15, 19 April 2025

2025-04-19T14:15:51Z

← Older revision		Revision as of 14:15, 19 April 2025
Line 19:		Line 19:

	==== Page 12-3 ====		==== Page 12-3 ====
	* It is possible to 3D-print a mold and lay up a fiberglass cap that goes onto the leading edge of E-912 instead of building it up to match the curvature of E-913. The 3D-print project is here [https://cad.onshape.com/documents/2d18e62c34f9871d62d595bd/w/62ed52794e9db993635c4b5a/e/878ad7f4480a4767bfe7c195?renderMode=0&uiState=6243a8118871e6462234511d at Onshape]. The 3D-printer file is here [[~~index.php?title=~~Media:HS Fairing Mold1.stl\|HS_Fairing_Mold1.stl]].		* It is possible to 3D-print a mold and lay up a fiberglass cap that goes onto the leading edge of E-912 instead of building it up to match the curvature of E-913. The 3D-print project is here [https://cad.onshape.com/documents/2d18e62c34f9871d62d595bd/w/62ed52794e9db993635c4b5a/e/878ad7f4480a4767bfe7c195?renderMode=0&uiState=6243a8118871e6462234511d at Onshape]. The 3D-printer file is here [[Media:HS Fairing Mold1.stl\|HS_Fairing_Mold1.stl]].
	* It is possible to 3D-print a mold and lay up a fiberglass insert that goes into HS-910. It has the right curvature and it has the necessary kink to match the Elevator counter weight leading edge. The 3D-print project is here [https://cad.onshape.com/documents/fcd78f2ce5fcf8549652b724/w/efce270e7d34aa85633c27ce/e/b25eb27fde3cd5777347d51f?renderMode=0&uiState=6243a8b37aa9182ef0561832 at Onshape]. The 3D-printer file is here [[~~index.php?title=~~Media:HS Fairing Mold2.stl\|HS_Fairing_Mold2.stl]]		* It is possible to 3D-print a mold and lay up a fiberglass insert that goes into HS-910. It has the right curvature and it has the necessary kink to match the Elevator counter weight leading edge. The 3D-print project is here [https://cad.onshape.com/documents/fcd78f2ce5fcf8549652b724/w/efce270e7d34aa85633c27ce/e/b25eb27fde3cd5777347d51f?renderMode=0&uiState=6243a8b37aa9182ef0561832 at Onshape]. The 3D-printer file is here [[Media:HS Fairing Mold2.stl\|HS_Fairing_Mold2.stl]]
	==== Page 12-6 ====		==== Page 12-6 ====
	* Step 6: There is no machine countersink bit with a pilot that would fit exactly into the threaded part of a #6 screw (#36 hole), only for the #28 hole that the screw goes through. Use the countersink bit for 3/32 rivets (#40).		* Step 6: There is no machine countersink bit with a pilot that would fit exactly into the threaded part of a #6 screw (#36 hole), only for the #28 hole that the screw goes through. Use the countersink bit for 3/32 rivets (#40).

	[[~~index.php?title=~~Category:Hints]]		[[Category:Hints]]

Kirkbauer at 14:38, 23 February 2025

2025-02-23T14:38:03Z

← Older revision		Revision as of 14:38, 23 February 2025
Line 12:		Line 12:
	* It may be easier to purchase your tail light before attaching the rudder bottom fairing.		* It may be easier to purchase your tail light before attaching the rudder bottom fairing.

	== Page 12-2 ==		=== Notes ===

			==== Page 12-2 ====
	* Step 1: Good results were achieved by clamping an aluminum strip along the recess edge and then using a Dremel with router attachment to square the edge. Even though the Dremel has the potential to eat into the aluminum strip, one can guide the Dremel in a fashion where it barely touches the strip.		* Step 1: Good results were achieved by clamping an aluminum strip along the recess edge and then using a Dremel with router attachment to square the edge. Even though the Dremel has the potential to eat into the aluminum strip, one can guide the Dremel in a fashion where it barely touches the strip.
	* Step 4: I was unable to dimple the most rearward of the skin holes for a #30 hole and I had to purchase this tool: https://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/pnpages/12-00612.php		* Step 4: I was unable to dimple the most rearward of the skin holes for a #30 hole and I had to purchase this tool: https://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/pnpages/12-00612.php

	== Page 12-3 ==		==== Page 12-3 ====
	* It is possible to 3D-print a mold and lay up a fiberglass cap that goes onto the leading edge of E-912 instead of building it up to match the curvature of E-913. The 3D-print project is here [https://cad.onshape.com/documents/2d18e62c34f9871d62d595bd/w/62ed52794e9db993635c4b5a/e/878ad7f4480a4767bfe7c195?renderMode=0&uiState=6243a8118871e6462234511d at Onshape]. The 3D-printer file is here [[index.php?title=Media:HS Fairing Mold1.stl\|HS_Fairing_Mold1.stl]].		* It is possible to 3D-print a mold and lay up a fiberglass cap that goes onto the leading edge of E-912 instead of building it up to match the curvature of E-913. The 3D-print project is here [https://cad.onshape.com/documents/2d18e62c34f9871d62d595bd/w/62ed52794e9db993635c4b5a/e/878ad7f4480a4767bfe7c195?renderMode=0&uiState=6243a8118871e6462234511d at Onshape]. The 3D-printer file is here [[index.php?title=Media:HS Fairing Mold1.stl\|HS_Fairing_Mold1.stl]].
	* It is possible to 3D-print a mold and lay up a fiberglass insert that goes into HS-910. It has the right curvature and it has the necessary kink to match the Elevator counter weight leading edge. The 3D-print project is here [https://cad.onshape.com/documents/fcd78f2ce5fcf8549652b724/w/efce270e7d34aa85633c27ce/e/b25eb27fde3cd5777347d51f?renderMode=0&uiState=6243a8b37aa9182ef0561832 at Onshape]. The 3D-printer file is here [[index.php?title=Media:HS Fairing Mold2.stl\|HS_Fairing_Mold2.stl]]		* It is possible to 3D-print a mold and lay up a fiberglass insert that goes into HS-910. It has the right curvature and it has the necessary kink to match the Elevator counter weight leading edge. The 3D-print project is here [https://cad.onshape.com/documents/fcd78f2ce5fcf8549652b724/w/efce270e7d34aa85633c27ce/e/b25eb27fde3cd5777347d51f?renderMode=0&uiState=6243a8b37aa9182ef0561832 at Onshape]. The 3D-printer file is here [[index.php?title=Media:HS Fairing Mold2.stl\|HS_Fairing_Mold2.stl]]
	== Page 12-6 ==		==== Page 12-6 ====
	* Step 6: There is no machine countersink bit with a pilot that would fit exactly into the threaded part of a #6 screw (#36 hole), only for the #28 hole that the screw goes through. Use the countersink bit for 3/32 rivets (#40).		* Step 6: There is no machine countersink bit with a pilot that would fit exactly into the threaded part of a #6 screw (#36 hole), only for the #28 hole that the screw goes through. Use the countersink bit for 3/32 rivets (#40).

	[[index.php?title=Category:Hints]]		[[index.php?title=Category:Hints]]

Kirkbauer: Added Before You Start section

2025-02-23T13:41:28Z

Added Before You Start section

← Older revision		Revision as of 13:41, 23 February 2025
Line 2:		Line 2:
	* N/A		* N/A
	Check for more recent updates [https://www.vansaircraft.com/service-information-and-revisions/?aircraft=rv-10&doctype=revisions-changes&sort=date here]		Check for more recent updates [https://www.vansaircraft.com/service-information-and-revisions/?aircraft=rv-10&doctype=revisions-changes&sort=date here]

			=== Before You Start ===
			Special/New Tools/Supplies

			* If this is your first time doing fiberglass work, [https://vansaircraftbuilders.com/fiberglass-101.aspx start here]

			Modifications to Consider

			* It may be easier to purchase your tail light before attaching the rudder bottom fairing.

	== Page 12-2 ==		== Page 12-2 ==

Kirkbauer at 22:15, 11 May 2024

2024-05-11T22:15:37Z

← Older revision		Revision as of 22:15, 11 May 2024
Line 5:		Line 5:
	== Page 12-2 ==		== Page 12-2 ==
	* Step 1: Good results were achieved by clamping an aluminum strip along the recess edge and then using a Dremel with router attachment to square the edge. Even though the Dremel has the potential to eat into the aluminum strip, one can guide the Dremel in a fashion where it barely touches the strip.		* Step 1: Good results were achieved by clamping an aluminum strip along the recess edge and then using a Dremel with router attachment to square the edge. Even though the Dremel has the potential to eat into the aluminum strip, one can guide the Dremel in a fashion where it barely touches the strip.
			* Step 4: I was unable to dimple the most rearward of the skin holes for a #30 hole and I had to purchase this tool: https://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/pnpages/12-00612.php

	== Page 12-3 ==		== Page 12-3 ==
	* It is possible to 3D-print a mold and lay up a fiberglass cap that goes onto the leading edge of E-912 instead of building it up to match the curvature of E-913. The 3D-print project is here [https://cad.onshape.com/documents/2d18e62c34f9871d62d595bd/w/62ed52794e9db993635c4b5a/e/878ad7f4480a4767bfe7c195?renderMode=0&uiState=6243a8118871e6462234511d at Onshape]. The 3D-printer file is here [[Media:~~HS_Fairing_Mold1~~.stl\|HS_Fairing_Mold1.stl]].		* It is possible to 3D-print a mold and lay up a fiberglass cap that goes onto the leading edge of E-912 instead of building it up to match the curvature of E-913. The 3D-print project is here [https://cad.onshape.com/documents/2d18e62c34f9871d62d595bd/w/62ed52794e9db993635c4b5a/e/878ad7f4480a4767bfe7c195?renderMode=0&uiState=6243a8118871e6462234511d at Onshape]. The 3D-printer file is here [[index.php?title=Media:HS Fairing Mold1.stl\|HS_Fairing_Mold1.stl]].
	* It is possible to 3D-print a mold and lay up a fiberglass insert that goes into HS-910. It has the right curvature and it has the necessary kink to match the Elevator counter weight leading edge. The 3D-print project is here [https://cad.onshape.com/documents/fcd78f2ce5fcf8549652b724/w/efce270e7d34aa85633c27ce/e/b25eb27fde3cd5777347d51f?renderMode=0&uiState=6243a8b37aa9182ef0561832 at Onshape]. The 3D-printer file is here [[Media:~~HS_Fairing_Mold2~~.stl\|HS_Fairing_Mold2.stl]]		* It is possible to 3D-print a mold and lay up a fiberglass insert that goes into HS-910. It has the right curvature and it has the necessary kink to match the Elevator counter weight leading edge. The 3D-print project is here [https://cad.onshape.com/documents/fcd78f2ce5fcf8549652b724/w/efce270e7d34aa85633c27ce/e/b25eb27fde3cd5777347d51f?renderMode=0&uiState=6243a8b37aa9182ef0561832 at Onshape]. The 3D-printer file is here [[index.php?title=Media:HS Fairing Mold2.stl\|HS_Fairing_Mold2.stl]]
	== Page 12-6 ==		== Page 12-6 ==
	* Step 6: There is no machine countersink bit with a pilot that would fit exactly into the threaded part of a #6 screw (#36 hole), only for the #28 hole that the screw goes through. Use the countersink bit for 3/32 rivets (#40).		* Step 6: There is no machine countersink bit with a pilot that would fit exactly into the threaded part of a #6 screw (#36 hole), only for the #28 hole that the screw goes through. Use the countersink bit for 3/32 rivets (#40).

	[[Category:Hints]]		[[index.php?title=Category:Hints]]

Martin at 10:34, 23 November 2023

2023-11-23T10:34:32Z

← Older revision		Revision as of 10:34, 23 November 2023
Line 11:		Line 11:
	== Page 12-6 ==		== Page 12-6 ==
	* Step 6: There is no machine countersink bit with a pilot that would fit exactly into the threaded part of a #6 screw (#36 hole), only for the #28 hole that the screw goes through. Use the countersink bit for 3/32 rivets (#40).		* Step 6: There is no machine countersink bit with a pilot that would fit exactly into the threaded part of a #6 screw (#36 hole), only for the #28 hole that the screw goes through. Use the countersink bit for 3/32 rivets (#40).

			[[Category:Hints]]

Martin: /* Page 12-6 */

2023-03-20T15:26:57Z

Page 12-6

← Older revision		Revision as of 15:26, 20 March 2023
Line 10:		Line 10:
	* It is possible to 3D-print a mold and lay up a fiberglass insert that goes into HS-910. It has the right curvature and it has the necessary kink to match the Elevator counter weight leading edge. The 3D-print project is here [https://cad.onshape.com/documents/fcd78f2ce5fcf8549652b724/w/efce270e7d34aa85633c27ce/e/b25eb27fde3cd5777347d51f?renderMode=0&uiState=6243a8b37aa9182ef0561832 at Onshape]. The 3D-printer file is here [[Media:HS_Fairing_Mold2.stl\|HS_Fairing_Mold2.stl]]		* It is possible to 3D-print a mold and lay up a fiberglass insert that goes into HS-910. It has the right curvature and it has the necessary kink to match the Elevator counter weight leading edge. The 3D-print project is here [https://cad.onshape.com/documents/fcd78f2ce5fcf8549652b724/w/efce270e7d34aa85633c27ce/e/b25eb27fde3cd5777347d51f?renderMode=0&uiState=6243a8b37aa9182ef0561832 at Onshape]. The 3D-printer file is here [[Media:HS_Fairing_Mold2.stl\|HS_Fairing_Mold2.stl]]
	== Page 12-6 ==		== Page 12-6 ==
	* Step 6: ~~The standard tool kits don't include a~~ machine countersink ~~took for~~ #6 ~~screws~~, for ~~alternatives, see this [https://www~~.~~facebook.com~~/~~groups/vansrv10/posts/5912699215517795/ FB thread]~~.		* Step 6: There is no machine countersink bit with a pilot that would fit exactly into the threaded part of a #6 screw (#36 hole), only for the #28 hole that the screw goes through. Use the countersink bit for 3/32 rivets (#40).

Martin: /* Page 12-6 */

2023-03-20T15:05:34Z

Page 12-6

← Older revision		Revision as of 15:05, 20 March 2023
Line 10:		Line 10:
	* It is possible to 3D-print a mold and lay up a fiberglass insert that goes into HS-910. It has the right curvature and it has the necessary kink to match the Elevator counter weight leading edge. The 3D-print project is here [https://cad.onshape.com/documents/fcd78f2ce5fcf8549652b724/w/efce270e7d34aa85633c27ce/e/b25eb27fde3cd5777347d51f?renderMode=0&uiState=6243a8b37aa9182ef0561832 at Onshape]. The 3D-printer file is here [[Media:HS_Fairing_Mold2.stl\|HS_Fairing_Mold2.stl]]		* It is possible to 3D-print a mold and lay up a fiberglass insert that goes into HS-910. It has the right curvature and it has the necessary kink to match the Elevator counter weight leading edge. The 3D-print project is here [https://cad.onshape.com/documents/fcd78f2ce5fcf8549652b724/w/efce270e7d34aa85633c27ce/e/b25eb27fde3cd5777347d51f?renderMode=0&uiState=6243a8b37aa9182ef0561832 at Onshape]. The 3D-printer file is here [[Media:HS_Fairing_Mold2.stl\|HS_Fairing_Mold2.stl]]
	== Page 12-6 ==		== Page 12-6 ==
	* Step 6: The standard tool kits don't include a machine countersink took for #6 screws, see this [https://www.facebook.com/groups/vansrv10/posts/5912699215517795/ FB thread].		* Step 6: The standard tool kits don't include a machine countersink took for #6 screws, for alternatives, see this [https://www.facebook.com/groups/vansrv10/posts/5912699215517795/ FB thread].

Martin: /* Page 12-3 */

2023-03-20T15:05:10Z

Page 12-3

← Older revision		Revision as of 15:05, 20 March 2023
Line 9:		Line 9:
	* It is possible to 3D-print a mold and lay up a fiberglass cap that goes onto the leading edge of E-912 instead of building it up to match the curvature of E-913. The 3D-print project is here [https://cad.onshape.com/documents/2d18e62c34f9871d62d595bd/w/62ed52794e9db993635c4b5a/e/878ad7f4480a4767bfe7c195?renderMode=0&uiState=6243a8118871e6462234511d at Onshape]. The 3D-printer file is here [[Media:HS_Fairing_Mold1.stl\|HS_Fairing_Mold1.stl]].		* It is possible to 3D-print a mold and lay up a fiberglass cap that goes onto the leading edge of E-912 instead of building it up to match the curvature of E-913. The 3D-print project is here [https://cad.onshape.com/documents/2d18e62c34f9871d62d595bd/w/62ed52794e9db993635c4b5a/e/878ad7f4480a4767bfe7c195?renderMode=0&uiState=6243a8118871e6462234511d at Onshape]. The 3D-printer file is here [[Media:HS_Fairing_Mold1.stl\|HS_Fairing_Mold1.stl]].
	* It is possible to 3D-print a mold and lay up a fiberglass insert that goes into HS-910. It has the right curvature and it has the necessary kink to match the Elevator counter weight leading edge. The 3D-print project is here [https://cad.onshape.com/documents/fcd78f2ce5fcf8549652b724/w/efce270e7d34aa85633c27ce/e/b25eb27fde3cd5777347d51f?renderMode=0&uiState=6243a8b37aa9182ef0561832 at Onshape]. The 3D-printer file is here [[Media:HS_Fairing_Mold2.stl\|HS_Fairing_Mold2.stl]]		* It is possible to 3D-print a mold and lay up a fiberglass insert that goes into HS-910. It has the right curvature and it has the necessary kink to match the Elevator counter weight leading edge. The 3D-print project is here [https://cad.onshape.com/documents/fcd78f2ce5fcf8549652b724/w/efce270e7d34aa85633c27ce/e/b25eb27fde3cd5777347d51f?renderMode=0&uiState=6243a8b37aa9182ef0561832 at Onshape]. The 3D-printer file is here [[Media:HS_Fairing_Mold2.stl\|HS_Fairing_Mold2.stl]]
			== Page 12-6 ==
			* Step 6: The standard tool kits don't include a machine countersink took for #6 screws, see this [https://www.facebook.com/groups/vansrv10/posts/5912699215517795/ FB thread].